Friday, February 11, 2011

Prof Page 4

The smearing which appears around the upper entry wound, is duplicated very faintly around the lower entry wound site, indicating that the upper wound rested in the same area as the lower wound, and with this in mind, the blood which appears to be running and leaking from the lower wound, is actually blood which originally ran from the upper wound at a time when the head was lolled forward and blood from the upper wound became transferred around the lower wound, so that when the head was re-positioned, exposing in full view the whole of Sheila's neck, it looked like both wounds were bleeding fresh blood, when in fact there was only one wound bleeding - the upper wound...

Close examination of the relevant photograph, reveals these features, including the presence of the vertical blood trail of dried blood from the lower entry wound, which is absent from the upper one...

The only conclusion which anyone can arrive at is that both wounds were not inflicted close together...

in my opinion...

No, there is no blood going from the upper wound to the lower wound, so the blood trickling from the lower would cannot be blood from the upper wound.

Online Alex

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2011, 08:54:PM »
It's obvious to me that those two shots were fired at pretty much the same time - one after another. The blood flow tells me that. I don't believe she shot herself in the kitchen, then got up and went to the bedroom. There would have been blood going down her neck.
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Yes, correct, and there is if you care to look closely enough...

Blood ran vertically from the lower wound, but not from the upper one....

It did not run vertically - it just didn't.

Kaldin, it does look to me as though it ran vertically (more or less - i.e. towards the axilla, were she sat up).  What makes you think that it didn't?

Your axilla is not vertical from your neck.

I know that - I meant the general direction.  The neck is lower if your lying down.  But perhaps Sheila wasn't lying horizontally.  But the wound was towards her right, and had she been sitting somewhat upright, her right arm against her side, perhaps with the forearm resting on her stomach, would that not have allowed the blood to pool where it did?

What do you make of the close-up?  I'm referring to the first wound.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2011, 08:57:PM »
The only thing that makes sense here is that at least one of the shots happened when she was sitting up. That's how the blood went down her night dress.

How did the blood get onto her lower arm?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2011, 09:01:PM »
Lower wound with vertical trail of blood, was caused by the bullet which fragmented (PV/20) and which became transformed into a whole bullet that entitled the ballistic expert to link it to the Bamber rifle...

Wound caused by this bullet, had blood which ran vertically from it, which the upper fatal wound, did not...

Why tamper with the bullet (PV/20)?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2011, 09:04:PM »
I think the gun was there on Sheila's body when the police went into the bedroom and found her.
----------------------------------------------
impossible, there was no expiated blood found on the gun, which matches the expiated blood around the fringes of the triangular bloodstain on the upper right side of the nightdress...

Sheila bled somewhere else, other than there on the bedroom floor, as evidenced by the other bloodstain on the back of her nightdress...

Sheila could not be stood upright and be shot under the chin and the gun end up on top of her body as shown in those stage managed police photographs...

impossible, it did not happen like that...

I don't agree.

As soon as I understand how that blood got onto her night dress, all will be clear.
--------------------------------------------

police stage managed body in bedroom, to make out a false case that she had been shot twice there - you will never be able to get an explanation to get the triangular blood stain on the front upper part of her nightdress, and the other stain on the rear of her nightdress, to be able to link in which the fantasy that she was shot twice in the bedroom, because it couldn't have happened like that, you can't fit square pegs into round holes...

What I can't explain - yet - is how the blood went down her nightdress and not to the right side of her neck, but I'm working on it.

There is nothing to indicate that the blood on the back of her night dress was hers, apart from the blood around the top of it obviously.
-------------------------------

So, in order for someones else's blood to get there on the back of her nightdress, Sheila had to be laid somewhere else in order for the back of her nightdress to become contaminated with this "other" blood, other than where she ended up next to the bed...

No, not if there was blood already on the floor where she was found - blood which got there before she was shot there.
----------------------------------------

sorry, you got it all wrong, police say there were only a few spots of blood from the same blood groups as June Bamber, so you explanation is out of the window, unless, of course, police lied (again)...

So, what about vertical trail of blood that can be seen to have run from the lower wound, but which is absent from the upper wound?

What is your explanation for that?

I keep saying it - she was sitting up or leaning back on something when she was shot - the blood went to the left and slightly down. Then she slid to the floor and she was shot again.

If the blood on the bedroom floor was all from June, why did she go round the foot of the bed?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2011, 09:07:PM »
I think the gun was there on Sheila's body when the police went into the bedroom and found her.
----------------------------------------------
impossible, there was no expiated blood found on the gun, which matches the expiated blood around the fringes of the triangular bloodstain on the upper right side of the nightdress...

Sheila bled somewhere else, other than there on the bedroom floor, as evidenced by the other bloodstain on the back of her nightdress...

Sheila could not be stood upright and be shot under the chin and the gun end up on top of her body as shown in those stage managed police photographs...

impossible, it did not happen like that...

I don't agree.

As soon as I understand how that blood got onto her night dress, all will be clear.
--------------------------------------------

police stage managed body in bedroom, to make out a false case that she had been shot twice there - you will never be able to get an explanation to get the triangular blood stain on the front upper part of her nightdress, and the other stain on the rear of her nightdress, to be able to link in which the fantasy that she was shot twice in the bedroom, because it couldn't have happened like that, you can't fit square pegs into round holes...

What I can't explain - yet - is how the blood went down her nightdress and not to the right side of her neck, but I'm working on it.

There is nothing to indicate that the blood on the back of her night dress was hers, apart from the blood around the top of it obviously.
-------------------------------

So, in order for someones else's blood to get there on the back of her nightdress, Sheila had to be laid somewhere else in order for the back of her nightdress to become contaminated with this "other" blood, other than where she ended up next to the bed...

No, not if there was blood already on the floor where she was found - blood which got there before she was shot there.
----------------------------------------

sorry, you got it all wrong, police say there were only a few spots of blood from the same blood groups as June Bamber, so you explanation is out of the window, unless, of course, police lied (again)...

So, what about vertical trail of blood that can be seen to have run from the lower wound, but which is absent from the upper wound?

What is your explanation for that?

I keep saying it - she was sitting up or leaning back on something when she was shot - the blood went to the left and slightly down. Then she slid to the floor and she was shot again.

If the blood on the bedroom floor was all from June, why did she go round the foot of the bed?
------------------------------------------
police say June walked about in the bedroom, including across the foot of the bed, and the bedroom window, as evidenced by the presence of her blood there in that piece of the bedroom carpet...

June could have been the figure who the police and Jeremy saw walking across the bedroom window....

simple...

Online Alex

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2011, 09:10:PM »
I think the gun was there on Sheila's body when the police went into the bedroom and found her.
----------------------------------------------
impossible, there was no expiated blood found on the gun, which matches the expiated blood around the fringes of the triangular bloodstain on the upper right side of the nightdress...

Sheila bled somewhere else, other than there on the bedroom floor, as evidenced by the other bloodstain on the back of her nightdress...

Sheila could not be stood upright and be shot under the chin and the gun end up on top of her body as shown in those stage managed police photographs...

impossible, it did not happen like that...

I don't agree.

As soon as I understand how that blood got onto her night dress, all will be clear.
--------------------------------------------

police stage managed body in bedroom, to make out a false case that she had been shot twice there - you will never be able to get an explanation to get the triangular blood stain on the front upper part of her nightdress, and the other stain on the rear of her nightdress, to be able to link in which the fantasy that she was shot twice in the bedroom, because it couldn't have happened like that, you can't fit square pegs into round holes...

What I can't explain - yet - is how the blood went down her nightdress and not to the right side of her neck, but I'm working on it.

There is nothing to indicate that the blood on the back of her night dress was hers, apart from the blood around the top of it obviously.
-------------------------------

So, in order for someones else's blood to get there on the back of her nightdress, Sheila had to be laid somewhere else in order for the back of her nightdress to become contaminated with this "other" blood, other than where she ended up next to the bed...

No, not if there was blood already on the floor where she was found - blood which got there before she was shot there.
----------------------------------------

sorry, you got it all wrong, police say there were only a few spots of blood from the same blood groups as June Bamber, so you explanation is out of the window, unless, of course, police lied (again)...

So, what about vertical trail of blood that can be seen to have run from the lower wound, but which is absent from the upper wound?

What is your explanation for that?

I keep saying it - she was sitting up or leaning back on something when she was shot - the blood went to the left and slightly down. Then she slid to the floor and she was shot again.

If the blood on the bedroom floor was all from June, why did she go round the foot of the bed?

Yes, it would be nice to know whether the blood samples taken from the carpet were from the parts of the carpet which the police cut out and burned and which parts those were.  Is there really enough evidence about whose blood was where?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2011, 09:11:PM »

police say June walked about in the bedroom, including across the foot of the bed, and the bedroom window, as evidenced by the presence of her blood there in that piece of the bedroom carpet...

June could have been the figure who the police and Jeremy saw walking across the bedroom window....

simple...

Why did she walk around the bedroom? Why would she walk across the foot of the bed and the window and then walk back to the side of the bed nearest the door when she died.

Chris Bews said they thought they saw something move in the one of the side windows, not the main bedroom window. 

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2011, 09:13:PM »

Yes, it would be nice to know whether the blood samples taken from the carpet were from the parts of the carpet which the police cut out and burned and which parts those were.  Is there really enough evidence about whose blood was where?

No, I don't think there is enough information about whose blood it was. There was blood on the bed (from June). There was blood on the floor near the door, at the foot of the bed and round the other side of the bed. I haven't seen any photos of it, or any reports about whose blood it was.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 09:23:PM by Kaldin »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2011, 09:14:PM »

police say June walked about in the bedroom, including across the foot of the bed, and the bedroom window, as evidenced by the presence of her blood there in that piece of the bedroom carpet...

June could have been the figure who the police and Jeremy saw walking across the bedroom window....

simple...

Why did she walk around the bedroom? Why would she walk across the foot of the bed and the window and then walk back to the side of the bed nearest the door when she died.

Chris Bews said they thought they saw something move in the one of the side windows, not the main bedroom window.
-------------------------

Jeremy says the figure they all saw and responded to, was in the main bedroom...

Bews and Myall along with Jeremy raced back to the patrol car which was parked in pages lane, and a radio message was passed to that effect - police refuse to release details of what was said during that transmission...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2011, 09:16:PM »

Yes, it would be nice to know whether the blood samples taken from the carpet were from the parts of the carpet which the police cut out and burned and which parts those were.  Is there really enough evidence about whose blood was where?

No, I think there is enough information about whose blood it was. There was blood on the bed (from June). There was blood on the floor near the door, at the foot of the bed and round the other side of the bed. I haven't seen any photos of it, or any reports about whose blood it was.
--------------------------------------------

The very same argument could be applied to the presence of blood found in the kitchen - Sheila's blood was definitely there...

Offline bb2010

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2011, 09:18:PM »

police say June walked about in the bedroom, including across the foot of the bed, and the bedroom window, as evidenced by the presence of her blood there in that piece of the bedroom carpet...

June could have been the figure who the police and Jeremy saw walking across the bedroom window....

simple...

Why did she walk around the bedroom? Why would she walk across the foot of the bed and the window and then walk back to the side of the bed nearest the door when she died.

Chris Bews said they thought they saw something move in the one of the side windows, not the main bedroom window.
-------------------------

Jeremy says the figure they all saw and responded to, was in the main bedroom...

Bews and Myall along with Jeremy raced back to the patrol car which was parked in pages lane, and a radio message was passed to that effect - police refuse to release details of what was said during that transmission...

Jeremy could say what was said during that transmission?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2011, 09:22:PM »

police say June walked about in the bedroom, including across the foot of the bed, and the bedroom window, as evidenced by the presence of her blood there in that piece of the bedroom carpet...

June could have been the figure who the police and Jeremy saw walking across the bedroom window....

simple...

Why did she walk around the bedroom? Why would she walk across the foot of the bed and the window and then walk back to the side of the bed nearest the door when she died.

Chris Bews said they thought they saw something move in the one of the side windows, not the main bedroom window.
-------------------------

Jeremy says the figure they all saw and responded to, was in the main bedroom...

Bews and Myall along with Jeremy raced back to the patrol car which was parked in pages lane, and a radio message was passed to that effect - police refuse to release details of what was said during that transmission...

Chris Bews tells a different story ...

He said as they went round the building, Myall said he saw something and pointed at a window at the back of the building at the top right window. Chris Bewes and Jeremy never said they saw anything. move.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2011, 09:25:PM »

Yes, it would be nice to know whether the blood samples taken from the carpet were from the parts of the carpet which the police cut out and burned and which parts those were.  Is there really enough evidence about whose blood was where?

No, I think there is enough information about whose blood it was. There was blood on the bed (from June). There was blood on the floor near the door, at the foot of the bed and round the other side of the bed. I haven't seen any photos of it, or any reports about whose blood it was.
--------------------------------------------

The very same argument could be applied to the presence of blood found in the kitchen - Sheila's blood was definitely there...

Missed a word out from my post - I DON'T think there is enough info about whose blood it was.

There are reports of blood and where it was, but no information about whose blood it was. There is no evidence whatsoever that Sheila's blood was in the kitchen, and there's no evidence that Neville's blood was not in the bedroom.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell's report
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2011, 10:40:PM »

Yes, it would be nice to know whether the blood samples taken from the carpet were from the parts of the carpet which the police cut out and burned and which parts those were.  Is there really enough evidence about whose blood was where?

No, I think there is enough information about whose blood it was. There was blood on the bed (from June). There was blood on the floor near the door, at the foot of the bed and round the other side of the bed. I haven't seen any photos of it, or any reports about whose blood it was.
--------------------------------------------

The very same argument could be applied to the presence of blood found in the kitchen - Sheila's blood was definitely there...

Missed a word out from my post - I DON'T think there is enough info about whose blood it was.

There are reports of blood and where it was, but no information about whose blood it was. There is no evidence whatsoever that Sheila's blood was in the kitchen, and there's no evidence that Neville's blood was not in the bedroom.
------------------------------

I would say that there is no evidence that there was any blood belonging or originating from Ralph in the bedroom, but definitely some of Sheila's blood in the kitchen...

If Jeremy was the killer, Ralph would have come to the aid of June, Sheila and the children, and yet there appears to be none of their blood at all found upon Ralph Bambers body, or clothing?

How do you explain this, if it were true?