Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Page 2

Three different Bullet Sizes..

According to the pathologist, Dr Peter Venezis, the five victims had three different sized bullet entry wounds upon one or other of their bodies, namely, bullet entry wounds which were 3 / 16ths in diameter, others which were 1 / 4 inch in diameter and others still which were 1 / 2 inch in diameter. This suggests that three different guns were used to inflict the 25 wounds, and that all of these bullets did not come from the same gun.

Essex police have put together a one gun crime scenario which does not match up with the ballistic information. They have deliberately made the family owned Anshuzt rifle the sole murder weapon, but they know this suggestion is poppycock.

Only 11 of the 25 crime scene bullet entry wounds were 3 / 16ths in diameter - the other 1 / 4 inch diameter wounds totalled 9 and there were five 1 / 2 inch diameter bullet entry wounds. I believe that this information helps to explain why there was no lead deposit upon Sheila Caffells hands through handling the bullets which she would have needed to handle if she had used only one gun, since, she would have had to reload the magazine of the anshuzt rifle twice more in order to fire 25 bullets from that weapon.

It may be possible that she did not load any bullets at all into any gun and this would thus explain why she has not got any lead deposit upon her hands.

10 bullets could have been preloaded into the magazine of the anshuzt rifle with another (1) solitary bullet in the chamber of the same gun - Sheila need not have loaded any one of these 11 bullets.

9 other bullets could have been loaded into another gun and Sheila may not have had anything to do with putting any one of these 9 bullets into this second weapon.

5 other bullets were fired from an additional gun and again Sheila need not necessarily have handled any of these bullets at all.

It is looking more and more obvious that the police fired shots when they forced their way into whf at just after 07:30am. If you add the 9 X 1 / 4 inch bullets to the five X 1 / 2 inch bullets it produces a total of 14 and this figure corresponds exactly with the number of spent cartridge cases ( MDF/100) which the lab' handed back to Essex police for storage in its armory. I honestly think the 14 cartridge cases (MDF/100) belong to the 14 police bullets which could have been fired by the police upon entry into the premises. Some of these 14 bullets may have been fired into the bodies of victims who were already dead. It also remains possible that the police did shoot and kill Sheila Caffell in the main bedroom, and that this is linked to the rather bizarre situation whereby a fragmented bullet (PV/20) which was removed from Sheila Caffells throat by the pathologist on 7th August 1985 somehow managed to metamorphosize into a whole bullet by the 20th September 1985? The bull;et was changed because the original was ot fired from the anshuzt rifle but from one of the other two missing murder weapons.

There is no explanation for why the police have tampered with the crime scene ammunition and how they have gone out of their way to try and make this into a one gun crime when all along there were at least three different weapons used in the shootings.


  • #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    [/B]


    Once again YOUR opinion. Please provide proof for your theories or sites to post to.
    -------------

    Joseph Bell:-

    Your opinion on my opinion, is only your opinion, just like whatever anybody else has ever had to say on the matter is merely their opinion. Nobody has any proof that what they are saying is the one and only true opinion that everyone else should take note of. It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to believe things which have been spoken about by others which cannot be proven one way or the other, and there is absolutely no evidence to support what has been alleged, yet when someone like me comes along and offers an alternative opinion, people like yourself suddenly start suggesting that what I have got to say is merely my own opinion, which is true, just as the opinions of other people are theirs.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it does not matter if other people do not agree with the gist of what is being said?

    I do have access to material which is more than capable of backing up and supporting everything I have had to say unlike a lot of other people who just say things for the sake of saying it.

    There is something very seriously wrong with the case that has been put together to prosecute Jeremy Bamber for these awful murders, Essex police dropped clanger after clanger, tampered with the crime scene and doctored official police records to try and keep a lid on what actually took place at the scene between the firearms officers who went into the house and some of the victims. I am convinced that Sheila Caffell was still alive at the time the raid team forced its way into the farmhouse and that she died in the main bedroom at about 08:30am with police officers close by or in attendance.

    These are just my opinions..


  • #48

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    Absence of blood outside crime scene..

    Considering that five persons were brutally gunned down inside their own home and that the main bedroom and the kitchen were heavily bloodstained, one is left to wonder how a killer could have left the scene without leaving a clue that someone else was responsible for killing everyone, other than Sheila, or the police..

    It cannot even be argued that the killer washed himself down before leaving the scene because Scenes of crime checked the bathroom and could not find any trace of blood in the plug holes of the bath or the sinks upstairs or downstairs..

    No living person could have got out of that place without leaving some form of trace evidence that he or she had been there..

    Heavy bloodstains inside the house, and an absence of any blood at all outside, tells its own story..

    Jeremy Bamber did not kill anyone at white house farm that night..


  • #49

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    Police involved in shootings inside whf..

    I would be prepared to say that in view of the fact that the ballistic evidence has been doctored in this case, and because of the reluctance of Essex police to provide information about all of the weapons and ammunitions its officers withdrew from the force armory before they left to go and attend the incident at whf and how much of that ammunition was returned there after the incident, that one or more of the firearms officers who entered whf at just after 07:30am on the morning of 7th August 1985, fired some shots, and that as a result of these shots being fired, a person or persons were wounded and killed (in the case of Sheila Caffell)..

    I am more and more convinced that this is in fact what did occur..

    I am not saying that I believe that it was the police who shot and wounded and killed everyone found dead inside the house, since I truly believe that some of the victims were already shot and wounded and even killed by the stage the firearms officers actually set foot inside the house.

    It may well be that the firearms officers shot victims inside whf who were already dead prior to them being shot by the police..

    The police do not tamper with crime scene ammunition and stage manage bodies inside the house for nothing. There was a purpose behind what they did and why they chose to do it..

    I believe they covered up what took place inside whf after the firearms team entered because they were responsible for Sheila caffell's death and also for shooting some of the other victims who were already dead or wounded..

    I think enough evidence exists to prove this to be true..


  • #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    We appear to be having a discussion at cross purposes here. YOU began this thread with accusations that the Essex police were involved in a conspiracy against Bamber and then you went for the Sheila killed them all gambit.

    You use speculation, inference 'my belief/I believe' as 'support' for your statements.

    How can I help you understand the difference between 'proof' and the 'supposition' that you use? They're not the same Mike. If Bamber is given a retrial and found innocent it's not going to change my life one little bit.
    Now you post that you have the 'proof' and could use it if you want to. Again, you're not being open and straight forward.

    My final thought (and I'll be honest it's not my own. Kudos to the originator.)
    Why are you posting to an American website about a British murder that most Americans never heard of?
    I wasn't aware of any stipulation that Crimelibrary was only to be for American crimes and I know that CL's readership isn't restricted to Americans but I guess that's a minor issue compared with people who claim to have proof of someone's innocence/guilt but refuse to elaborate. Rather than make me stop and think, it tends to have the opposite effect with me and I'm more inclined to consider that the person claiming this secret evidence lacks credibility.

    Regarding Jeremy Bamber, I think he's probably guilty.
    The above post is only my opinion. Please do not hesitate to ask me for clarification if anything I post is unclear.

    http://www.findmadeleine.com/


  • #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    CL isn't stipulated only for Americans. However, wouldn't you find it a little odd if a crime in the US that hadn't been heard of in most of the world was posted on a British site? Why isn't Mike posting in Britain? Where is any support for Bamber going to be raised? In the US? Hardly? This is one point.

    This particular poster from Sheffield was arrested by Yorkshire police in '87. His own post. I'm also wondering if he was jailed or is still jailed. Mike talks of 'inside' knowledge and he has 'inside' proof'. He has a definite what shall I say lean? towards believing that police don't tell the truth. And yes, I would like to share in this evidence he has. Very much so.

    Until this poster is totally upfront and straightforward with what he wishes to share, h'm.
    I don't think it's odd because I don't think he's so much seeking out Americans as just seeking out individuals who are interested in crime. Besides, I don't know of any British discussion forums on crime - they all seem to be American. Also, I don't think Brits have as much interest in crime generally as Americans. Our media is much more restrained owing to strict pro judice laws so criminal cases only really get reported once the trial is underway and open investigations don't get reported at all so there's never really much to discuss anyway.

    Maybe this is Jeremy Bamber himself? Nah - he'll be too busy replying to his fan mail :-)
    The above post is only my opinion. Please do not hesitate to ask me for clarification if anything I post is unclear.

    http://www.findmadeleine.com/


  • #52

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    Sheila killed everyone / the police shot the victims including Sheila..

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    We appear to be having a discussion at cross purposes here. YOU began this thread with accusations that the Essex police were involved in a conspiracy against Bamber and then you went for the Sheila killed them all gambit.
    -----------------------

    Joseph Bell:-

    Sheila did fire the gun of that I am certain but she did not necessarily reload any bullets into that same gun. The suggestion that she had to reload the magazine of the ansuzt rifle twice in order for her to fire all 25 bullets from that gun is nothing but a red herring, provable by virtue of the fact that five of the bullets which were fired into the bodies of Ralph and June Bamber made 1 / 2 inch diameter entry wounds which could not have been loaded into the magazine of the anshuzt let alone fired from that gun, because that rifle cannot be loaded with or fire 1 / 2 inch caliber bullets..

    It remains possible that there was a maximum of 11 X .22 bullets loaded into the rifle and that Sheila discharged the rifle eleven times before the police eventually got into the building..

    She could have wounded and killed all the other victims by the time the police forced their way into the farm house and the police blasted the already dead victims as they burst into each part of the house, firing randomly or at anything or anyone that they thought could be Sheila..

    14 of the 25 bullets (by referebnce to their sizes) could not have been loaded and fired via the anshuzt rifle and so it is just a case of deduction really, another gun or other guns must have fired these other 14 bullets, but Essex police have gone out of their way to make this a one gun crime when in reality at least three different guns were used in the shootings..

    The ballistic facts are there for all to see..

    The same gun could not have fired all 25 bullets, it's as simple as that, but Essex police want everyone to believe that this is what happened - impossible, it could not have happened..


  • #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post

    This particular poster from Sheffield was arrested by Yorkshire police in '87. His own post. I'm also wondering if he was jailed or is still jailed. Mike talks of 'inside' knowledge and he has 'inside' proof'. He has a definite what shall I say lean? towards believing that police don't tell the truth. And yes, I would like to share in this evidence he has. Very much so.

    Until this poster is totally upfront and straightforward with what he wishes to share, h'm.
    ----------------------
    Joseph Bell:-

    1987 is a year that South Yorkshire Police will never forget..

    There was an internal police investigation led by a senior Detective Chief Inspector from the greater Manchester police and it ended up with three detectives ( an inspector, a sergeant and a constable) being prosecuted for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, forgery and perjury. This investigation opened up a can of worms for the South Yorkshire police force and exposed how deep seated corruption was in use at that time during the prosecution of suspects these officers arrested. Police notebooks were re-written to accommodate the details of arrests and witness statements were doctored by insertions being placed into the middle of existing statements by use of different typewriters - such evidence was used to support the prosecution of certain individuals but was later found out to be false. The prosecution of these three police officers was only the tip of the ice berg, since, the Manchester police inquiry uncovered a lot more evidence about the illegal misuse of pocketbook notes in court proceedings but it would not have been in the so called public interest to charge all of those concerned with involvement in this scam..

    I was a victim of this corruption and that is all you need to know really..


  • #54

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    PS Woodcocks witness statement has been doctored..

    Police sergeant Woodcocks witness statement in the Bamber case has been doctored by the insertion of a re-typed page which contains the contents of what the raid team found when they first entered the farmhouse. Page 5 of his statement has been typed out by use of a completely different typewriter than all the other pages in the same statement and some of the original pages are missing.

    The original page 5 contents are missing.

    It is somewhat odd that this part of his statement has been interfered with and that this relates to the first part of the police operation inside the house which covers whether or not the police found two bodies downstairs in the kitchen and three other bodies upstairs or if they only found one body downstairs and four other bodies upstairs?

    The added and re-typed insert (page 5) provides detail about the find of only one body downstairs, but one has to wonder whether or not the original page 5 contents which have gone missing referred to the find of two bodies in line with the police message log contents?


  • #55

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    Some wounds on bodies of victims did not bleed...

    In December 2003, I visited the offices of Jeremy Bambers former solicitor, Ewen Smith, in Birmingham, England, and I had an opportunity to view a series of crime scene and other photographs taken in connection with this case. Some of the photographs included images of the bullet entry wounds inflicted upon the victims. I was struck at that time by the total absence of any blood leaking or pouring from some of the wounds which caused me top conclude that some of the bullets had been inflicted upon one or more victims after they had already been dead for some time.

    These particular photographs had not previously been disclosed to BamBer or his legal team and were loaned to Ewen Smith by Essex police on the proviso that he did not copy them or try to enlarge any of the images..

    It has been somewhat puzzling in my opinion, why Essex police and the prosecution did not seek to introduce this aspect of the case into the trial proceedings at Chelmsford CC back in 1986 when Jeremy Bamber faced trial before judge and jury? Even more puzzling, was why the pathologist did not cover this point in his autopsy report. How some of the wounds which were inflicted upon some of the victims had not bled was obviously as significant feature of the investigation. Why would a killer want to re-shoot the victims hours after they were already dead and not moving or breathing?

    On the other hand, these shots could have been fired at the time the firearms team had forced their way into the building at just after 07:30am, that morning..

    Why have Essex police made this investigation into a one gun crime when all the current information which is available clearly points to the possible use of at l;east three different weapons in the shootings?

    A gun that was capable of making 3 / 16ths diameter bullet entry wounds, another gun which was capable of making 1 / 4 inch diameter bullet entry wounds and yet another gun which was capable of making 1 / 2 inch diameter bullet entry wounds?

    Link this to the fact that the ballistic expert could only positively link 15 of the 25 crime scene bullets to the anshuzt rifle (owned by the family) and that 12 of the crime scene bullets were described by the ballistic expert as being whole in appearance yet seven of these were too heavy and the other five were much too light to have originated from the same batch of crime scene ammunition which was supposed to have been the source for all of the 25 crime scene bullets..

    How come the ballistics expert was unable to match or link one solitary crime scene bullet to one solitary crime scene spent cartridge case? He failed to find any matching criming marks from the base of the bullet to the cartridge in each of the 25 examples he had to examine..

    He did not even try to match up the gun powder formula found inside these 25 cartridge cases and which must also have been present on the 25 crime scene bullets - and this must arouse suspicion that the bullets and the spent cartridge cases did not all belong to one another but that there is a very strong possibility that some were substituted and swapped over..

    You would only tamper with the crime scene ammunition if you had got something to hide?

    Bullet (PV/20) which was recovered from her neck of Sheila Caffell by the pathologist during the autopsy on 7th August 1985, was fragmented at that time, but by the time it fell into the possession of the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher on 20th September 1985, it had been transformed into a whole bullet which could be linked to the anshuzt rifle - how could a crime scene bullet change shaped and appearance all by itself during a six week period?

    Some of the bullets were changed over and some of the cartridge cases were changed over and the reason why I believe they were changed over was because the firearms officers fired bullets once they forced their way into the building and that this is linked to the reason why some of the wounds inflicted upon some of the victims did not bleed..

    I have evidence in my possession which I believe is capable of supporting and proving such a theory..


  • #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    Mike, you 'have' all this inside info but you can't or won't provide links to it or where other posters can find it. Until you can or will, it's your opinion. I'm sorry. I admire your conviction. I really do. But..
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Joseph Bell:-

    I can provide the information I am talking about to back up what I have been saying to anybody who cares to send me their email address so that I can post the relevant documentation for checking..

    I will not, however, provide this information to anyone who is not genuinely interested in the issues in this case.


  • #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    Mike, I'm not going to give you my email address. No. You can pm me all the info and links you have but you should be posting them here. If you believe that you are 100% correct then go for it. I have no links in the UK to police or anyone involved in the Bamber case. But you can't post your theories and suppositions about the case and expect other people to believe that what you say is the truth.
    ------------------------------------------------

    Joseph Bell:-

    You appear to be saying that it is alright for other people to have theories and for supposition to be relied upon when they give their slant on the case such as the witnesses who testified at Bambers trial who were all guilty of speculation, it was alright for all of those people to say the things they said without being able to prove what they were saying as being true, but when I have a theory or I rely upon supposition you are not going to accept anything I might have to say unless I can prove it all by providing you with links so that you can check it out yourself..

    Well, I have got copies of 50, 000 documents from the Bamber case in my loft and these documents are not available on any link that I can direct you or other people to..

    For your information, there are another 3 million other documents which Essex police and the CPS are refusing to release in connection with this case under pii rules and for these reasons Bamber and his legal team will never ever get access to them. Now if I have copies of the original documents and you want to see them, then the only way you are going to have any chance of seeing them is if you forward an email address that I might consider sending some of the material to you because there is no link where all of this material is stored for general access. I do not want your email address so that I can pester you with unwanted emails, but if you insist on seeing the material I am referring to then it looks to me that this would be perhaps your only option of ever getting to see the material you might be interested in.

    until you see the material that I have in my possession, you will never know that what I am talking about is true, or just poppycock..

    I can assure you that I do have the material from this case in my possession, and I refer to the information and evidence contained within it, when I comment on this thread. I do not make things up just for the sake of saying something, I can assure you..


  • #58

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    2 Q's

    You say you were a victim of police corruption. Why are you championing someone else's case and not your own?

    How did you come into possession of legal and sensitive documents, are you saying the lawyer just handed them over to you?
    It Works For Me


  • #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
    You say you were a victim of police corruption. Why are you championing someone else's case and not your own?

    How did you come into possession of legal and sensitive documents, are you saying the lawyer just handed them over to you?
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Bluefox:-

    The reason I have the material is because I was once Jeremy Bambers McKenzie man - at a time when he did not have any legal assistance because the Legal aid board would not provide him with any funding to do the necessary work which needed to be done to get his case referred back to the court of appeal..

    I filled in with that role and took possession of all the available case files and researched all of them.

    Later, When Bamber got legal aid funding I liaised with his solicitors because they did not have the time or funding to read every document and file on the case due to a limited budget..

    As I say, I currently have over 50,000 documents about the case and two dozen or more crime scene photographs in my possession - which is nothing compared to the 3 million other documents which Essex police and the CPS are continuing to withhold in this case under pii rules..


  • #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    Hi BF. As you say, why go to so much trouble to champion someone else's case in the US? Why not in the UK?

    Yes, Mike, how did you end up with so much sensitive materiaL? So much, that you have it in your loft?

    I think you're Jeremy. That's not the end of the world. Just be open about it.

    If you want your case to be reopened then push for public opinion in the UK. It's useless doing it here.
    -------------------------------

    Bluefox

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    2 Q's
    You say you were a victim of police corruption. Why are you championing someone else's case and not your own?

    How did you come into possession of legal and sensitive documents, are you saying the lawyer just handed them over to you?
    __________________
    It Works For Me
    -------------------------------------

    Joseph Bell and BlueFox:-

    There is already an American Link to the case, since, the American Ballistics and bloodstain expert, Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell, from New York, worked on the case after Bamber was convicted of these murders. McDonnell was contacted by Bamber at the beginning of the 1990's and asked to examine the crime scene photographs and other crime scene material in the possession of Essex police, which Bamber could not get access to, and at that time McDonnell was in contact with the BBC Correspondent, Roger Wilkes, who wrote a book on the case, entitled "Blood Relations".

    Essex police released all the available material to Professor McDonnell and he concluded that Sheila's body had been moved after she had been killed and that somebody stage managed her body by placing the rifle on top of it and arranging her hands upon and around the weapon to try and make it appear as though she had shot herself by use of it. He concluded by saying that there was no evidence to suggest or to link Jeremy Bamber to the death of Sheila Caffell..

    I have the reports and Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell says that there is no evidence to link Jeremy Bamber to this death.

    McDonnell was a world renowned expert in the field of ballistics and bloodstain patterns and he used to tour the world giving lectures to experts in various fields within the forensic science service throughout many countries and so we should not dismiss what he has to say..

    I believe the involvement of Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell in this case should satisfy your curiosity that this case does have an appeal to ordinary Americans, since one of your countries leading ballistic and bloodstain / pattern experts was directly involved with carrying out an independent investigation into what caused the death of Sheila Caffell..


  • #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    Great Mike. 2 questions. What is a MacKenzie man and where can I read the doctor's findings?
    ------------------------------------------
    Joseph Bell:-

    There is no link to enable anyone to read the Doctor's findings, and since I accept your wishes that you do not want me to have your email address so that I can forward on copies of his findings I am prepared to type out, word for word, the actual contents of his reports so that you and others may read and consider them.

    In the event that anyone should want proof that my presentation is an accurate reflection of what the reports say then I may consider forwarding a copy of the reports to anyone who supplies me with an email address, to send copies of the original reports to.

    I would, however, prefer to send you a copy of the Professor Herbert Leon McDonnell reports, to an email address, on the proviso that I would promise not to try and contact you further on any other point unless you contact me first and ask that I do so again.


  • #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Bell View Post
    Mike, why don't you just post them here, a bit at a time, so everyone can read them?
    -----------------------------------

    Joseph Bell :-

    As I mentioned in my previous posting I am prepared to make the contents of the (Herbert Leon McDonnell) reports available through a typed version of the actual contents, but I presume there will be some people who do not accept that the wording of the reports is duplicated in its entirety or that I have altered the wording in some way, to which there would be no point in doing so, from my point of view..

    I will start posting the details contained in the reports this week-end if I cannot find another way of presenting the material for general viewing..

    I am considering using "photobucket" with a link so that readers can just view it all by themselves..


  • #63

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    How could police fail to notice that Sheila had been Murdered?

    In the prelude to my posting of the Herbert Leon McDonell reports I would invite everyone to consider why the police in this case failed to see all the fundamental clues which Professor McDonnell points out and which he says are in favor of Sheila being murdered, and that her body was moved after she was killed, and that it was stage managed, thereafter, by someone to make it look like it was a suicide?

    The reader is invited to consider that for one whole month Essex police treated Sheila Caffell's death as a suicide and they even appeared at the Coroners court and told the Deputy Coroner that she had taken her own life by a solitary gunshot wound to the throat which resulted in the bodies of the five victims being released for disposal by way of cremation (adults) and burial (child victims)..


  • #64

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    Mike would i be correct in saying that Mackenzie man, merely means, a man with a mission? and if so, why is it your mission? and out of curiosity, are you Scottish? You could be anybody! which still leaves the Q, why not fight your own case? I am beginning to think that this trying to convince people on a forum is futile.

    You also say Jeremy has been refused legal aid. Then why does he still have a legal team working for his release? and why do you have to bat for him on a forum thousands of miles away when his legal team filed a further appeal in 2005, and that legal team still working for him as is proved by the following update.


    Mass Killer Passes Lie Detector Test

    8:44am UK, Friday April 20, 2007

    Mass killer Jeremy Bamber's legal team claim he has "conclusively" passed a lie detector test and proved his innocence.
    180-jeremy bamber pic

    Jeremy Bamber

    A lawyer for the 45-year-old, who was jailed for life for the murder of five members of his family, said he took the test at Full Sutton prison near York.

    Giovanni di Stefano said the convicted murderer was asked a series of questions, including whether he carried out the killings.

    Mr di Stefano said the results confirmed that Bamber was "telling the truth" and he is now calling for him to be released.

    He said: "He has passed conclusively the lie detector test.

    "I will now be asking the Secretary of State to refer the case to the Parole Board with a view to them releasing him."

    He added that he would also be making a further application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission for an appeal in the case.

    He has previously lost appeals in 1987 and 2002 since his conviction in 1986.

    Bamber has always denied shooting dead his adoptive parents Neville and June, sister Sheila Caffell and her twin six-year-old sons Nicholas and Daniel at the family's home, in Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex, in 1985.

    A Prison Service spokeswoman would not comment on the lie detector claims and said it was a matter for Bamber's lawyers.

    On his website, Bamber listed 12 questions he had been asked during the lie detector test.

    He said the questions were:

    1. Did you shoot your family on August 7, 1985? - No
    2. Did you shoot five members of your family with a Anschutz rifle? - No
    3. Were you present inside the house when they were shot with a Anschutz rifle - No
    4. Did you shoot your father Neville? - No
    5. Did you shoot your mother June? - No
    6. Did you shoot your sister Sheila Caffell? - No
    7. Did you shoot your twin nephews Daniel and Nicholas? - No
    8. Did you hide a rifle silencer in a cupboard after shooting your family? - No
    9. Did you climb out of a window of your parent's (sic) home after shooting them? - No
    10. Did you shoot your family in your father's home? - No
    11. Did PC Berry radio in a report of seeing someone in an upstairs window around 4am on the morning of the shooting? - Yes
    12. Did you pay a professional hitman to shoot your family? - No

    .................................................. .....................................

    Maybe if you were more upfront Mike, you would find a more sympathetic audience, as it is, you come across as angry and always on the defensive, and that worries me more than a little as to who you really are, and your mental state even, and your motives. Sorry, but i'm just being honest here. after all, we don't you from Adam, and if i were jailed by corrupt police, i'd wanna fight my own case, not some other Tom Dick or Harry.
    It Works For Me


  • #65

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    The Appeal

    Jeremy Bamber – family killer loses appeal on DNA grounds

    Forensic Science Service (FSS) scientists gave evidence for both prosecution and defence in the failed Jeremy Bamber appeal, reinforcing its reputation for impartiality and as an independent provider of forensic expertise.

    After a high profile trial in 1986, Bamber was convicted of the shooting of his adoptive parents, June and Neville Bamber, his adopted sister, Sheila Caffell and her six-year-old twins. Bamber has always protested his innocence claiming that Sheila was responsible for their deaths before committing suicide.

    The case was unusual in that it was common ground that only two explanations for the five killings were possible. The first was the prosecution case that Jeremy Bamber entered the Essex farmhouse owned by his mother and father at night and shot the five members of his family with a legally-held rifle. At the heart of the original prosecution case was evidence that Sheila’s blood was in the sound moderator, or silencer, of the murder weapon. If so, she could not have shot herself then put it in a cupboard downstairs.

    The second, the defence case, was that Sheila, who had a history of psychiatric illness, had shot the four members of her family with the rifle and then committed suicide. In the initial stages the police thought it likely that the second explanation was correct. Some officers, however, thought that some of the findings were inconsistent with this explanation and members of the Bambers’ extended family did not believe that it was consistent with their knowledge of Sheila.

    Bamber’s case was referred back to the Court of Appeal in 1998 by the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which investigates possible miscarriages of justice. The appeal was based on 15 grounds – the majority relating to documentation and other evidence which it was suggested was not made available to the defence before or at trial, some serious allegations were also made against the police to suggest there was evidence of a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by deliberately concealing evidence helpful to Bamber’s case. However, the appeal was centred on new DNA evidence and an attack on the original blood testing evidence. This led to further forensic work being carried out by a number of FSS scientists.

    Bamber’s QC, Michael Turner, claimed the original defence team had been misled by a former FSS scientist into believing that the whole of a blood flake recovered from the silencer had been mixed in solution before being subjected to blood grouping tests. It had, but had been broken first into four pieces before being dissolved in water.

    A forensic scientist gave evidence for Bamber’s team claiming that dissolving the whole flake might have prevented the detection of a mixture of blood types which could have shown that the original flake was a mixture of blood from June and Neville Bamber.

    Bamber’s case was that fresh DNA evidence from the silencer backed this theory after a DNA profile was obtained from the baffle plates inside the silencer. There were 17 of these cup-shaped plates which, when put together, help to absorb the sound when a gun is fired.

    Although the baffle plates had been originally examined by scientists in 2000, it was agreed that they’d wait for a year until the latest supersensitive tests - DNA Low Copy Number (DNA LCN) - could be used.

    When these baffle plates were swabbed a strong female profile was obtained along with minor male contributions. The court heard that the profile could not have come from Sheila Caffell and further attempts to identify the source were attempted.

    The victims’ reference samples had been destroyed by Essex Police 10 years after the trial, so there were no profiles available for direct comparison purposes.

    The situation was further complicated because the gun and silencer had been put back together and dissembled making it possible for trace evidence to be transferred from one area to another.

    Statistical tests on a DNA profile from June’s sister were carried out to give an indication of whether this unidentified female profile could be from June. The Appeal Court was told that, based on the profile of her sister, there was strong evidence to support the assertion that this female profile was from June. However, it wasn’t possible to find out whether this DNA originated from blood, or other cellular material, or say how it got there or when.

    The court then heard how several other areas inside the silencer had also been subjected to DNA LCN tests and complex mixtures obtained. Senior forensic scientists for both the prosecution and the defence said they couldn’t exclude Sheila Caffell from being a contributor to the mixtures. However, because of the complexity of the mixed profiles it had not been possible to statistically evaluate the significance of these findings.

    One of them went on to explain that the FSS had carried out experiments involving computer simulation to determine the average number of bands that might be shared by chance in a three-person mixture. These experiments indicated that as many as 13 could be shared by chance alone. However, in this case, all but three of the 20 bands from Sheila’s profile were represented in the mixture, providing positive evidence to support the opinion that DNA from Sheila was present. However, as it couldn’t be determined whether this DNA came from blood, the evidence was effectively neutral and therefore not helpful to either side.

    The original firearms work was carried out by an FSS firearms expert, who used the available information to try and determine in which order the 27 shots were fired. This was not presented to the court because counsel recognised there was an element of speculation. Also some firing tests to determine the likelihood of finding discharge residues on Sheila Caffell, performed originally, were repeated.

    The three judges said they had “no doubt” the verdicts were safe and rejected all 15 points on which Bamber had made his case for freedom.

    .................................................. ............................

    http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/jer...ber/#indie4702
    Last edited by Bluefox; 08-17-2008 at 03:27 PM.
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  • #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
    you come across as angry and always on the defensive, and that worries me
    ----------------------------------------

    Bluefox:-



    It is somewhat remarkable that when it suits the courts they can dismiss new DNA evidence on the back of a claim that the silencer may have been innocently or accidentally cross contaminated whilst being mishandled by Scientists who dismantled the silencer and rebuilt it, but they turn their faces away from the very same argument when it could mean that Sheila's blood got into the silencer by the same process before the silencer was sent to the lab and the crucial blood group evidence belonging to Sheila was identified?

    Being so selective with the evidence is something that the police, relatives and the courts have been so eager to do in this case, in favor of Bamber being guilty.

    It is simply too convenient for the contamination of the silencer argument to simply apply so as to negate the impact of the new DNA evidence (2002 appeal) rather than say contamination may have played a part in Sheila's blood finding its way into the silencer originally? Since, without that blood group evidence, Bamber would never have been convicted in the first place, not that because the blood was attributed to his sister in any way points to his guilt, unless the jury are being asked to choose between Sheila and or Jeremy as to culpability? Bamber would only be guilty in those circumstances if the silencer was not contaminated with his sisters blood through mishandling by the relatives and the police and the scientists at the lab, before the blood was discovered after 30th August 1985.

    How come the court of appeal in its judgment of 2002, only highlights for the possibility that some form of innocent cross contamination of the silencer (DNA) took place through mishandling of the silencer by the scientists? There is absolutely no consideration at all that the very same silencer was mishandled by relatives and the police prior to the scientists taking possession of it and whats more the relatives openly admitted that they tried to unscrew the silencer and look inside it and the police even dismantled it and rebuilt it and they screwed the rebuilt silencer onto the barrel of the bloodstained rifle before it was sent to the lab to be examine, now please tell me that all of this was alright to do?

    Tell me that contamination of that silencer could not have taken place by the mishandling of that silencer by the relatives and the police before it was submitted to the lab and the scientists themselves mishandled it to enable the court of appeal to reject the new DNA evidence, but for the court to turn its face away from the real issue of whether or not the silencer was contaminated with Sheila Caffells blood before the silencer was sent to the lab as a result of mishandling of it by the relatives and the police?

    As things stand at the moment, contamination allows the DNA evidence to be rejected but not the blood based evidence?

    Now, this cannot be right in any civilized society can it?

    Such fundamental issues and the way the courts have chosen to selectively interpret them are enough to make anyone feel angry..

    Angry?

    Who me?


  • #67

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    Quite simply Mike, yes, i could understand your anger if it were for yourself, your own case of alleged corruption. You continue to evade important Q's asked of you on here, which we wouldn't ask, if we didn't want them ANSWERED.

    And what is your motive for posting overseas to convince an audience of strange people of Bamber's innocence? He hasn't convinced the courts, he hasn't convinced the British Government, so why the effort at all?

    So, exactly who are you, how close are you to Bamber, and is Bamber aware of what you're doing? do you have his Blessing?!

    The gun! Could Sheila have shot herself and then had time to go downstairs and put the gun in a cupboard? Why would she do that? As for contamination etc etc, i don't know, i wasn't there, i'm no expert, but then i'm not trying to pass myself off as an expert either.

    As we know, behaviour or lack of appropriate behaviour after a crime, often points to a possible suspect. We all know that, especially here at crime.library

    Bamber's behaviour was very suspect, as reported at the time, taking friends for fancy dinners, holidays in France etc etc, not the sort of thing your average person would dream of doing after burying the whole family. So what's your take on this behaviour Mike?
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  • #68

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    Could Bambi's killer go free this time?

    In a cell in a maximum security prison, a bespectacled, middle-aged man sits tapping away at a computer screen. Jeremy Bamber - convicted mass murderer, the monster of White Farm - is updating his website. The corner of each page announces the days he has served of the life sentence he received for the murder of his adoptive parents, Nevill and June, his sister Sheila Caffell and her sixyear-old twin sons, Nicholas and Daniel. The tally so far stands at more than 7,300 - all of them, Bamber would say, stolen from him as unjust punishment for crimes he did not commit.

    The internet age has been a boon to those cut off from society, like Bamber. In the earlier years of his sentence - he has served 19 years - all he could do to proclaim his innocence after his day in court was to wait for the grindingly slow wheels of the appeals process to turn and write endless letters, never knowing if they would ever be read. But through his website he can make his case to untold numbers of people on the outside. Some of them might even feel compelled to help him in his quest to clear his name.

    For the past few weeks Bamber has had much to impart to his website visitors and at some point over the next few weeks he may well have momentous news to share, for it appears likely that he is to be granted an almost unprecedented third chance to appeal against his conviction. The appeal could be heard in three months.

    His defence team say they have discovered a piece of previously undisclosed evidence that is now being considered by the Criminal Cases Review Commission.

    It consists of a note found tucked into a Bible which was beside the body of Bamber's sister, Sheila, a model aptly nicknamed Bambi, which his legal team believe could be a suicide note she wrote before she - not Bamber - shot Nevill, June, Nicholas and Daniel and, finally, herself.

    The letter begins with the words "Love one another". Other discernible fragments say "always to action", "determination", "the others" and "feel good or not".

    It may not be the note or its contents which prove crucial but the fact that they existed at all, unbeknown to everyone involved in the case.

    "Both the note and the Bible were destroyed by the police, " says Giovanni Di Stefano, a member of Bamber's legal team. "The prosecution never saw them, the defence never saw them, the judge never saw them and the jury never saw them."

    If the commission decides the note was indeed overlooked at Bamber's original trial in 1986 and at his two subsequent appeals in 1989 and 2002, they would be virtually bound to order the case to be revisited for the third time.

    The Bamber case has always been so beset with twists and niggling doubts that it has never strayed far from public consciousness.

    The murders at White Farm in the Essex village of Tolleshunt D'Arcy in 1985 were among the most shocking crimes of the last century.

    It is a tale steeped in greed and uneasy family dynamics. The crime wiped out three generations of the same family, including two sweet-faced, mop-haired boys.

    All were shot dead and their bodies found in various parts of the house.

    Except that the five were not really from the same family at all. They were not blood relatives.

    Bamber, then 25, and the beautiful, doe-eyed Sheila, 27, were the adopted children of Nevill and June Bamber.

    Their son was said to be corrupted by greed, boasting to a girlfriend of wanting to do away with his parents so he could get his hands on a £500,000 inheritance.

    In the early hours of August 7, 1985, police were called to White House Farm by Bamber. He no longer lived at home but had called the police just before 3am after getting a phone call from Nevill saying Sheila had "gone crazy" and got hold of a gun.

    At 7.30am, armed officers stormed the building. Inside they found five bodies amid a bloodbath. Nevill, 61, was found in the kitchen; he had been shot eight times. June, also 61, was in the master bedroom with seven gunshot wounds. Beside the bed lay Sheila, holding an Anschutz semi-automatic rifle.





    Altogether, 25 shots had been fired.

    Sheila was a diagnosed schizophrenic. She had expressed thoughts of taking her own and her children's lives before. She had a difficult relationship with her adoptive mother and had spoken of cleansing June's mind. Sheila was also in the habit of neglecting to take her medication, and her condition had worsened since her recent separation from the twins' father.

    Bamber was with police all the time between the 999 call and the Tactical Firearms Unit bursting into the house.

    At first, officers were convinced that Sheila had cracked and acted on her paranoid schizophrenic urges. But a month later, Bamber was arrested and charged with the five murders.

    At his in trial in October 1986, the prosecution said he had climbed into the house through the downstairs toilet window, shot his family, and climbed out again through the kitchen window. The jury were told that Sheila could not have committed the murders as she was inexperienced with guns. The jury convicted Bamber by a 10-2 majority and he was sentenced to life.

    What the jury did not hear was that Sheila in fact knew a good deal about guns, since she had gone on shooting holidays with her cousin. Nor were they told that police records - which were not presented in court - showed that when officers entered White House Farm, they found all the windows closed and locked. Nor did they know of a police radio log which recorded police seeing a figure move inside the house before they stormed it.

    Bamber's two appeals failed - the second despite arguments that police tampered with or destroyed evidence. Bamber's lawyers argued on 15 points but the judges rejected them all.

    And that might well have been that but for Bamber deciding to engage the services of controversial lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano, whose other clients have included alleged Serbian war criminal Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein.

    Di Stefano claims the credit for spotting the note in the Bible next to Sheila's bloody body while scanning photographs from the crime scene.

    "I was asked to review the evidence in this about 18 months ago, " said Di Stefano yesterday, speaking from his office in Rome.

    "My preparation for this representation to the Criminal Cases Review Commission has been extremely thorough but even I didn't spot the note until a few weeks ago."

    The possible suicide note is now one of a list of grounds for appeal which the CCRC is considering.

    Bamber's team have also submitted photographs of Sheila's body, which show the blood still red and flowing from her wounds.

    They were taken by a police photographer who arrived after 9am. Yet experts conclude they could have been taken no more than 90 minutes after Sheila was shot - that is, at around 7.30am. By then, Jeremy Bamber had been with the police for several hours.

    Therefore, it is reasoned, he could not have killed his sister.

    Having believed initially that Sheila had probably lost her reason and killed her family, why did the police subsequently reject that scenario?

    What made them turn instead towards her brother? The answer is his then girlfriend, Julie Mugford.

    She was the prosecution's star witness and it was her testimony that painted Bamber as greedy and desperate to lay hands on his parents' fortune. Mugford claimed he had spoken of getting rid of his parents and told her: "Tonight's the night."

    At the 2002 appeal, Bamber's lawyers argued that he and Mugford, now a 40-year-old mother-of-two living in Canada, had split up just before the murders, so she was unlikely to be well disposed towards him. They also claimed the police had sought to "sanitise" her character when in fact she had taken part in a cheque fraud and tried to sell the story of her relationship with Bamber to a Sunday tabloid.
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  • #69

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    Continuation from previous post:

    "It was always assumed the police interviewed Julie Mugford four times. In fact, they interviewed her 32 times, " says Di Stefano.

    "We have a letter from the prosecutor in the trial saying categorically that he never saw all the pages of the police radio log.

    "There are thousands of pieces of relevant paper which the police have never released and they have never explained why. Put it all together and it all looks very wrong indeed."

    And then there is the issue of Di Stefano himself, whose involvement adds yet another stratum to an already many-layered case. Born in Campobasso, Southern Italy, 55 years ago and brought up in Northamptonshire, he is not registered in Britain to practise law but acts as a legal adviser after suceeding in a High Court case allowing EU lawyers the right to practise in each others jurisdiction, and reviews evidence for the preparation of appeals.

    He has succeeded in attaching himself to some extremely highprofile cases, most notably in helping property tycoon Nicholas Van Hoogstraten win the right to appeal against his conviction for manslaughter.

    Di Stefano is no stranger to the sharp end of a courtroom either.

    During the Eighties, he was sentenced to five years for currency fraud in South Africa and Zimbabwe. The conviction was subsequently overturned on appeal.

    He was deported from the US as an undesirable alien in 1990 after becoming embroiled in a failed deal to buy up MGM Studios in Hollywood after failing to repay $1.23 billion to a French Bank causing another scandal.

    Di Stefano - who described both Milosevic and Hussein as "nice men" - has met Bamber in prison. "I thought Jeremy was a nice man, " Di Stefano says. "People say he's arrogant but he gets that from his natural father."

    Bamber's natural father is Major Leslie Marsham, a former officer in the Royal Army Medical Corps who later worked for the Queen as a comptroller at Buckingham Palace. He and Bamber's mother, Juliet, were unmarried when the boy was born and gave him up for adoption to former RAF officer Nevill.

    "They can attack Jeremy Bamber and they can attack me but it doesn't change the basic facts, which is that Essex police failed to disclose important, even vital evidence, " says Di Stefano.

    "Put it all together and it is a very bad picture of yet another possible miscarriage of justice, for which a man has paid with 20 years of his life." Bamber was never placed on the list of criminals who will die in prison.

    His recommended tariff was 25 years, meaning he could be free in five years anyway whether his appeal succeeds or not.

    But, as Di Stefano says: "That is not the point."

    The Express, October 8, 2005, by Anna Pukas
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  • #70

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    Hi Joseph,

    yes the appeal was not granted and i believe he was then told he would spend the rest of his life in prison. He states on his website, that he believes he will die a free man. I don't think he will be granted a fourth appeal.
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  • #71

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    CCRC still reviewing Bamber Case

    The case of Jeremy Bamber and the white house farm murders is still under review by the CCRC, but a decision whether or not to refer the case back to the court of appeal is imminent..

    New material not previously considered by them or the court of appeal has been in their possession for the past three years. The delay is believed to be associated with the fact that Essex police have recently released 81 additional photographic negatives which have previously not been disclosed to Bamber, his legal team or the court which throw a different light on the investigation. These 81 crime scene negatives were part of a secret photographic dossier which was known by Essex police to be entitled "The Investigating Officers, album". At least one of the photographs not previously disclosed shows Sheila Caffells body laid out on top of the bed rather than it being laid on the bedroom floor by the side of her parents bed and there is a belief that the photograph which was taken which shows her body on the bed was taken before the other photographs which show her body on the bedroom floor. Essex police have cut up the rolls of negatives in an attempt to prevent anyone discovering which order the photographs were taken in - the present negatives are all individually cut up which is making it difficult to prove which photographs were taken first?

    Why did Essex police keep these 81 photographs a secret and place them in a top secret dossier and more importantly, why have they cut up the rolls of negatives into separate negatives for each of the photographs? Bamber and his legal team and the court which tried him in 1986 and the subsequent courts of appeal (2002) were entitled to see these additional 81 crime scene photographs but all concerned were prevented from doing so, by Essex police. The CCRC are looking into these new issues and are expected to refer the case back to the court of appeal in due course.


  • #72

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    It does appear so Joseph, full circle, but what have we learned? ZERO. You know why, Mike may just be Mr Public who is copying & pasting, a lot of his info is in glaring black & white on Bambers site. For anyone who cares to take a look: http://www.jeremybamber.com/index.php

    Funnily enough, there are always two people on the site, myself and one other, could that be Mike? oh and if you care to, you can always email Bamber personally: www.jeremybamber.com you may get a straight answer there (excuse the pun, couldn't help myself)

    So Mike, if you're truly flying the flag for Bamber, why didn't you give this simple info out and garner support? instead of confusing people with repititious bunkum nobody here can verify!!
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  • #73

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    Talking

    Ah no Joseph, i meant there are always only two people on Bamber's 'official' site at any time!
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    I've read so much on this Joseph, i'm not sure if there is another appeal being looked into. I do know that he was told, he would spend the rest of his life behind bars, after the last appeal. There are no updates on the net, none that i can find in newspapers, or their sites. I will look again and see what i can come up with.

    As for the files you were offered Joseph, from the Doctor, and then asked Mike to post them, well it's not gonna happen. I believe if anyone has a copy of those files, it's Bamber himself, 'cos lo and behold, Google tells me there are no links whatsoever to the findings of the good Doctor. You've guessed Joseph, we can't verify those either!! Hmmmmmmmmmm
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  • #75

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    I am highly honoured to be compared to Jack the Jack Russell, wonderful, big hearted dogs, they'd take on an elephant!

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_head...name_page.html

    Bamber's site, home page, has been changed today.

    Article from East Anglian Daily Times
    17 May 2008
    by James Hore
    Bamber: 'I will die a free man'


    Does Bamber run his own site? or not? by James Hore, nothing comes up on google, i thought he may have been 'the victim of corruption' but if he was, it certainly wasn't considered newsworthy.
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  • #76

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    Hi Joseph

    Oh yes, the Doctor exists, but nothing concerning him has been put on the internet, including his findings on Jeremy Bamber, wonder why!!

    The Home Page format has been changed, not moved, (merely updated) I think we're agreed that if 'Mike' is trying to gain sympathy for Bamber, his attitude has done the opposite.
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  • #77

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    Shame on ye Joseph only slight changed methinks, (conspiratorial wink to Jack)

    Get back here Mike, i ain't finished with ye
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  • #78

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    Who put the silencer in the gun cupboard, after 7th August 1985?

    For those who are genuinely interested, to be pondered is exactly how did the bloodstained silencer end up inside the gun cupboard in the downstairs office to enable David Boutflour to find it there on Saturday, 10th August 1985?

    I have previously brought attention to the fact that there exists a previously non disclosed witness statement in the name of Police Sergeant Woodcock (Special Branch officer) who attended the incident at whf along with the tactical firearms unit and over twenty armed officers, on the morning of the incident. In this statement, Woodcock states that PC's Collins and Delgado searched the gun cupboard. PC Collins removed a shotgun and a quantity of various types of ammunitions from the said gun cupboard. Not to be forgotten or overlooked, is the fact that this search took place on the morning of the 7th August 1985. At this time, there was no bloodstained silencer inside the gun cupboard, otherwise PC's Collins and Delgado would have seen it and taken possession of it. They would have removed the bloodstained silencer from the gun cupboard in the exact same way that they removed the shotgun and the ammunition, and whats more, if the silencer had been there at that time, PS Woodcock would have mentioned that he saw them remove it from the gun cupboard..

    But that is not what happened..

    Essex police had possession of the farmhouse keys from the morning of 7th August 1985 until the evening of the 9th August 1985. During this period Essex police carried out their examination of the scene including taking crime scene photographs and the taking of exhibits for evidential purposes and scientific examination at the Lab'. The police also took part in a clean up operation at the scene and burned bloodstained carpets and bed linen on a bonfire in the grounds of whf - all of this being done during the three day period that the police had the keys to the premises. It is therefore inevitable that the police picked things up and that they moved things around, and even that they took things outside to dispose of them, by burning them on a bonfire. If you pick up bloodstained items and you transport them from one place to another, it is inevitable that some blood will be transferred from the bloodied items onto your hands or clothing or footwear and then afterwards, if you pick something else up, there is going to be a very good chance that some form of accidental or innocent cross contamination of blood from the original item or the original items is going to be transfered onto anything that you come into contact with at and from that point onwards..

    How did the silencer with blood staining upon it get into the gun cupboard, in time for David Boutflour to find it there on 10th August 1985? This silencer was not present inside the gun cupboard on the morning of 7th August 1985 when PC's Collins and Delgado searched it, so who put it there and why?


  • #79

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    Did Police place the bloodstained silencer in the gun cupboard?

    Did Essex police officers put the bloodstained silencer into the gun cupboard during its clean up operation at the scene, after PC's Collins and Delgado had searched it on the morning of 7th August 1985? If they did, it would be odds on that by handling it there would be a very good chance that it got contaminated with blood, since the officers who were involved in the clean up operation were known to have been handling heavily bloodstained carpets, bed linen and items of clothing found at the scene..

    The odd thing about this part of the investigation is that the police do not go into any great detail about what they touched or moved during the clean up operation we are talking about, we are only told that they helped to clean up the scene before the keys were handed back to the relatives on the 9th August 1985.

    If a policeman picked up a silencer from elsewhere in the house and that officer had previously been handling bloodstained items it would be almost certain that when he touched or moved or picked up the silencer that he would contaminate it with blood from the other sources, at least this possibility cannot be disregarded. The most obvious place at the scene to put such a silencer would be in the gun cupboard and this could be how the silencer ended up in the gun cupboard in time for David Boutflour to discover it there on 10th August 1985.

    But there is also the possibility that the silencer was put back into the gun cupboard, after Essex police handed the keys of whf, back to the relatives, on the evening of 9th August 1985.


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    Relatives had keys to WHF between 9th and 10th August 1985..

    Essex police handed the keys for WHF back to Ann Eaton on the evening of 9th August 1985. There is evidence that Ann Eaton and her husband Peter, visited WHF the scene of this incident that same night and in fact according to another relative, who makes mention in a previously undisclosed witness statement, that Pater Eaton, returned a gun back to WHF that very same night.

    What was the reason for Peter Eaton taking a gun back to the scene of these shootings?

    What gun was it?

    who did it belong to?

    Did it have any accessories attached to it or that belonged to it? Such as a telescopic site or a silencer?

    All that has come to light during the past 23 years is a non disclosed witness statement by Robert Boutflour, which mentions that Pater Eaton took a gun back to the scene on Friday, 9th August 1985. Now why haven't Essex police taken an interest in these activities? In any event, Peter Eaton put the gun back at the scene before David Boutflour found the crucial bloodstained silencer in the gun cupboard on the following day (Saturday, 10th August 1985), and so we can be sure that the scene was not as the police had left it on the previous evening when they handed the keys of the farmhouse over to Ann Eaton..

    By the time David Boutflour arrived upon the scene on Saturday, 10th August 1985, a gun was present at the scene which had not been there whilst Essex police had control of the scene between 7th and the evening of the 9th August 1985.

    There was therefore, an opportunity for the silencer which David Boutflour found in the gun cupboard on Saturday, 10th August 1985, to have been put there by Peter Eaton on the previous evening..

    Identifying the gun which Peter Eaton returned to the scene after the police had completed their investigations could lead to the discovery that a silencer could have been fitted to the end of its barrel. It remains a high possibility that the silencer could have been placed into the gun cupboard between the evening of 9th August 1985 when Peter Eaton attended the scene to put the gun back, and the occasion on Saturday afternoon when David Boutflour looked into the gun cupboard and found the bloodstained silencer..